– Introduction to Austin Bonderer

Jaclyn Strominger 0:22

Hello, everybody, and welcome to another amazing episode of Unstoppable Success. I'm your host, Jaclyn Strominger. And on this podcast, as you know, we hear from amazing leaders and influential business professionals who are out there doing all things to help make them unstoppable. And they get to share their insights, their tips, their wisdom with you so you can be unstoppable too. And today I have an amazing guest, Austin Bonderer. And let me tell you a little bit about Austin. He is a seasoned patent attorney with over two decades of experience. He has a huge portfolio, over 700 issued U.S. patents, underscoring his expertise and dedication to the field. And his professional journey has taken him from across the globe, enriching his perspective and broadening his knowledge. And let me tell you, that's a lot of patents. So welcome to Unstoppable Success.

Austin Bonderer 1:18

Well, thank you for having me.

Jaclyn Strominger 1:20

You're welcome. Okay, so I'm just kind of curious. Did you wake up and come out of the womb thinking I want to go into patents?

Austin Bonderer 1:26

No, I was part of a generation. When I went into the patents, uh, I have to tell you, most people did not seek it out.

– How he became a patent attorney

Austin Bonderer 1:34

Uh, I have to say, now I get, you know, Instagram didn't DM messages, hey, I want to be a patent attorney. That wasn't really how it happened back then. I uh I went to engineering school. You have to be an engineer or a scientist to be a patent attorney. So I was going to engineering school, and I part of my capstone senior thesis, I developed this smokeless uh this wireless smoke detection system. And I got really interested in, and I, you know, I wrote my own provisional patent, which is horrible now looking back, but I did it, and this was you know part of my thesis. I filed it and all stuff, but it got me interested, and the patent office was hiring, so I went and worked at the patent office as a patent examiner.

Jaclyn Strominger 2:17

As a patent examiner, I mean you you know, okay, so like there are things that you just don't think about in terms of professions that are out there, and patent examiner is not really on my list of like number one professions that come to mind. I'm just letting you know, right?

Austin Bonderer 2:32

I agree, I agree, trust me. I thought I was gonna do the engineering stuff or construction management because that's kind of where I was headed, and then it was like, no, you're gonna sit in a back room and research all day and then write papers and push them, and that's that's gonna be your life now.

Jaclyn Strominger 2:48

Okay, so what made you go from that back office to now attorney?

Austin Bonderer 2:56

Okay, so uh a lot of times I I honestly at the time was I did I didn't want to live in uh Boston DC my whole life. Okay, and that was the issue. Like, so at the time the patent office didn't have it where you could work remotely or anything. So in order to leave DC,

– Patent examiner to attorney journey

Austin Bonderer 3:19

and you know, I wanted to raise a family and all this other kind of stuff, you had to go to law school. So I went to law school at night, became a patent attorney, then started working on the other side.

Jaclyn Strominger 3:28

Okay, so now you're a patent attorney. I mean, one of the things that I see, and I and talk to me about this, you know, and I and and I know there's a big huge um differential patent, trademark, and then you know, then there you also have like a registration for a name, right?

Austin Bonderer 3:52

Like so the trademarks, that's the names, right? So that's the registering, and the whole point of a trademark, most people don't realize this. So uh what I do is I help people get federally registered trademarks, and as you mentioned, the difference between the TM and the R, R of the circle, R of the circle means it's registered. The TM means you're claiming a common law trademark. So you'd be surprised what brands still use TMs, like American Airlines, they use a TM, they are not a federally registered trademark. Now, that doesn't mean that well, they got issues because when you trademark a name, you pull it out of the lexicon, right? So American Airlines literally describes exactly what it is. So they could never stop Delta for sit from saying Delta is an American airline.

Jaclyn Strominger 4:45

That's true, right?

Austin Bonderer 4:48

So they can't they came up with a name. So that's one of the things when you work with your clients and you're trying to get some separation there, you definitely go out and try to find a name that you're it's not descriptive because it will never become registered. Um, you try to look for strong marks, which you know tend to be a little bit more fanciful. Like when Google came out, there wasn't such a thing as Googling, it was just Google or Yahoo or stuff like that. So what you get a trademark as

– Patent vs Trademark vs Registration explained

Austin Bonderer 5:19

soon as you put a service or product out into commerce, right? Then you have common law rights to it. Now, to make it stronger, what we try to do is we federally register it. One of the requirements is that is that you have to have interstate commerce before you apply for the federal registration.

Jaclyn Strominger 5:38

Okay. I'm like interstate commerce, okay?

Austin Bonderer 5:41

Okay, interesting for some reason the government can regulate everything in the world in the United States, you know, despite the interstate commerce clause. But for trademarks, no, we still need the across state lines thing before they get involved. So that's what they do. So you have to have the interstate commerce and the name. Uh, and then once you do that, you can have a federally registered trademark. And what that does is it protects you uh throughout the United States. Because a common law trademark will be geographically limited. So just say you're a Southwest chain or something like that, and you don't get a federal registration, if so happens that someone in New York opens the same type of restaurant with the same type of name, you can't stop them from using it. But had you got a federal registration, you would prevent everyone in the United States.

Jaclyn Strominger 6:37

Interesting. So when people are starting a business, and and this is the part like for listeners, I think this is really important. You know, if you're planning to be and work, I guess, interstate or globally, I don't, you know, um you know, is it really important right from the beginning to get the tr to be to talk to uh an attorney and say, hey, like I want this, you know, check my registration, trademark, whatever, you know.

Austin Bonderer 7:13

Yes. I mean, so it's definitely one of those things you can, you know, definitely in the United States, internationally, if that's what you want to do, you you can do what's called an intent to use application. And basically what it is is sometimes say that time is of the essence. You will actually apply for four different marks with the intent to use them, and it's almost a form of pre-clearance. So once you get that clearance, hopefully you get clearance on all of them, and you can decide to use the one that you like the most. But you know, say that one or two falls, now you have one, you know, something in backup. Because if you're like, hey, we got to hit the presses, you know, within nine months, because understand it takes a while to get a you know, for your registration process to go through or your intent to use application to go through. Uh, I think the backlog now is seven months from the data filing until they look at it.

8:08

Oh, geez.

Austin Bonderer 8:10

Well, for patents, it's two and a half years or so.

Jaclyn Strominger 8:13

Two and a half years. Okay, so let's talk about patents because I I'm kind of curious about this too, because you know, like like I could tell you, like, I've got I've had a whole different bunch of different ideas and I've never gone through with them because I think, oh, I should get a patent for it, and blah, blah, blah. I need to get a prototype made. And then you see these companies that pop up and say, Hey, you've got an idea, we will help you. Cheesy friend, right? And you're like, Yeah, you're cringing. I can see that.

Austin Bonderer 8:48

I can't tell you how many clients

– What makes a strong trademark

Austin Bonderer 8:49

have come to me after working with you know those kind of companies. I'm not gonna name names, yeah. Uh, in fact, if I'm not mistaken, in the 90s or 2000s, Congress actually passed a law, consumer protections against those types of companies. I could be wrong, don't quote me on that. I was a little bit younger at the time, and I'm much older now. I forgot some things, but in any case, um what I tell people who call and they've dealt with it. I'm like, look, if you feel like you're the product, you are the product. So if you feel like you're being sold, that's where the money is coming from. So right. So I always tell people, you know, be careful, don't, you know, because their business model is generally they will make money if your invention hits, they'll take a percentage of it. But in the meantime, if it doesn't hit, they're still making money because they're like, we need you to pay us to contact all these companies. And that's like, well, what does contact all these companies mean? It might just be junk mail.

9:54

Right.

Austin Bonderer 9:55

But that's contact, right? I mean, there you go. Uh, we need all these brochures made, we need all this websites made. I mean, just the way that they push your product and all of it is expense to you, and if it hits, they still get a percentage of your patent.

10:11

Right.

Jaclyn Strominger 10:14

Yeah, that's me, that's not great. That's, you know, I mean, so because yeah, I mean, I've I've spoken to different companies, and they one of the things that they say, if you have an idea, come to us, we're gonna help you manufacture it, we'll help you come up with a prototype, we'll give you the get the patent. And I'm like, okay, I just want the you know, so many people just want the first part, which is help me make the prototype. I don't want the other stuff because I'd rather use another person for that.

Austin Bonderer 10:42

Right, exactly. Yeah, I know. Like the I, you know, I try to help my clients the best I can, but I do have my wheelhouse. I am a path interview. Now I do have experience with startups, so help with business and stuff, and you know, I can turn into that nagging. I always say I'm like the nagging mom saying clean your room. I'm like, we need to sign these agreements before we get too far down the road, you know, because inventors and entrepreneurs are like, we're making this this, you know, it's happening now. And attorneys are like, slow down, we have to do the boring work first, but the boring work can make it work. Um, you're right. So just I would not suggest using those companies. You can find people to make your prototype much better, let them stick in their wheelhouse. Um, and here's the other part you were talking about. You know, you had a product. First thing I tell people who call is like, you don't need a patent to make money. I mean, look around your house. You pay good money for a lot of that stuff, and someone made money off of you buying it. So, you know, if it's a good idea and you can't get a patent on it, you can still make money.

Jaclyn Strominger 11:53

Right, you can still sell it. You just have to get somebody, you know, do the prototype and then start doing those things, right? If that's something that you really want.

Austin Bonderer 12:00

Right. And you know, and this is a thing, like, there is a sweet spot. You can make a very good living on something before it gets copied. I mean, there is a sweet spot. Like, I mean, you have to be making a ton of product generally before someone's gonna copycat you in your product, yeah. So, you know, if you're making you can

– When to register your business name

Austin Bonderer 12:19

make a happy family life with a good product that's selling, maybe, you know, and then add to that product line before you start getting, you know.

Jaclyn Strominger 12:30

Right. So, so so when, you know, when is the right time to then go get the patent?

Austin Bonderer 12:38

At the beginning. Unfortunately, it's it's front loaded. Trademarks you can get, you can get a registration anytime. I actually had a client that'd been in business for over 70 years and we registered their trademark. Oh, right. So, but with patents, disclosure kills patents. So if you publicly disclose or offer for sale your patent or your idea, you only have a year in the United States to file for a patent application, but you've lost generally lost your right in the EU, China, a lot of other countries. The United States tends to be very patent friendly, and a lot of these other places are not. So any public disclosure can ruin your right to file in those countries. So generally, what we would do is we file in the United States first, and if you're like, hey, it's going to be a big deal, then we can file in the other countries. But if you publicly disclosed while you're still able to file in the United States, you can't file overseas.

Jaclyn Strominger 13:35

So do you have an example of somebody that you say, okay, this company made X? We did it here, but we couldn't do it overseas.

Austin Bonderer 13:47

Um well, it's not so much made. Just if you have a patent in the United States, you have the exclusive right to make and use it in the United States. But China can make that and they can sell it all over the world, everywhere else. Right.

Jaclyn Strominger 14:04

Right.

Austin Bonderer 14:05

So that's kind of how that works.

Jaclyn Strominger 14:06

Yeah. So but you don't necessarily have to get a patent just on a product, right? Or there are there's different types of patents.

Austin Bonderer 14:15

Well, it's you generally for a utility patent, you have a patent on either a method or an apparatus.

Jaclyn Strominger 14:22

Okay.

Austin Bonderer 14:23

You know, they they have basically killed software patents. It was the Alice decision came out. Supreme Clark said, this is just ones and zeros electrons, therefore it's not, it's an abstract idea. And in a weird way, they were talking, I mean, they were right. Basically, what it is the way I explain to people, because I get calls all the time, hey, I have a new app, I want a patent. And I'm like, well, is it generally taking information, comparing it to a database, or running

– The truth about invention companies

Austin Bonderer 14:49

it through an algorithm and spitting out an output? And pretty much all apps are that, it's just you know the secret sauce in that algorithm or database, and you can't get a patent on it because technically someone could do that in their head. Okay, all right, and you can't patent thought.

Jaclyn Strominger 15:14

Right. Right, yeah, right.

Austin Bonderer 15:17

That's kind of the way it goes, yeah, exactly. So uh, but um so you can generally patent methods and apparatuses. But I, you know, I warn my clients because a lot of times they're like, hey, I came up with a new way of making something. I'm like, yeah, we can get a patent on that, but then we we tell everyone how you're making it, but how do we enforce it? Methods of manufacturer, because it's happening behind a building, like you inside a building. How am I supposed to know that they're using your patent method? You told them how to use it because it you have to teach someone how to make and use your invention, but there's no way to police it. So oftentimes we'll talk about and like, is it something that a trade secret would be a proper remedy in order to protect you know that secret sauce? And of course, the most famous trade secret of all time is Coca-Cola, right?

Jaclyn Strominger 16:12

Right, right. So it's a right, you know, formula, a formula, you know, right? So you so okay, so that's a trade secret.

Austin Bonderer 16:25

So does that do you get a does a company get a separate filing for a trade secret, or it does not there's no really such thing as a file trade secret, you just have to go through a lot of steps and you know each situation is different. Like say you have a manufacturing process, you might do you know that component behind four security doors, so only very few people see it. I mean, if it's if you're going to try to protect it as a trade secret, make sure you talk to an attorney because it's a lot less concrete as a patent, because a patent comes in a document. You're like, here, the government gave it to me, it says it right there. Trademarks registration, same thing. Trade secrets kind of like, uh, we did everything we thought possible to keep this secret. Court, will you please enforce our trade secret against this rogue employee that's going to try to give it away? That's kind of how it works. And then the court, the judge is gonna look at you like, what did you do to keep it secret? If you're like, we just made everyone sign confidentiality agreements, that's not gonna be enough.

Jaclyn Strominger 17:32

I'm sorry, I don't mean to laugh about that, but I feel like that's like you're like not that NDAs are confidential are you know, it just you know, you it's I find that's correct me if I'm wrong. I would imagine sometimes that some of those things are really hard to enforce if you're just having a conversation with somebody, but sometimes you don't even realize what you're saying. I don't know.

Austin Bonderer 17:54

It's well, I you know, there's a big thing with you know, I've seen a lot. So an NDA at the end of the day is a contract, and a lot of people are like, hey, I told my best buddy, and don't worry, he signed an NDA. And I'm like, Well, what did you give him in exchange to keep quiet? Because in order to have a contract, you have to have a quid pro quo, like something for something, and his promise to keep it quiet, or your best friend's promise

– Do you need a patent to make money

Austin Bonderer 18:19

to keep it quiet without something given to them is merely a promise and not a binding contract by any means. The other thing is no one seems to read it. It's like in there, it says if you give out documents, you need to say it's confidential. If you talk to people, you need to say it's confidential. Like you have to label everything that you believe is confidential in order to adhere to the terms of the NDA. So it's not just this blanket piece of paper, like, here you go, have an NDA, it covers everything. It's like there are responsibilities inside that document that you have to live by. And if you're not doing it, then you know you might be in trouble later.

Jaclyn Strominger 18:58

Right, right. So, and so many people I don't really think necessarily read the fine print.

Austin Bonderer 19:05

No, read it. I mean, I only do because someone pays me to, right? That's I mean, it's so monotonous, you know, and you know, I wonder if that's where AI will start to come in, and you know, and then you you ask these people sometimes like, how'd you sign this contract? And you're like, Well, I didn't, it's it was 15 pages long. You expect me to read that? And I'm like, I get it. I mean, I read five pages that stuff, I'm sleepy. I can't imagine like someone who doesn't, you know, it's yeah, it's a lot of work.

Jaclyn Strominger 19:36

Yeah, so I have a I I have a question and and and I find it interesting. I'm hoping my listeners will find it interesting. Um, with with the impact of AI. Let's say I have I have a company and I'm putting in all the information about the company into AI to help me generate all my marketing materials, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. At what point, you know, is there a lack of protection of intellectual property, you know, because now I have put all of that into AI, and AI can pull from anywhere. So how do you how do we define, I guess, and keep intellectual property, intellectual property with AI?

Austin Bonderer 20:31

Yeah, that see, I've been harping on this for a while because everyone's like AI, and you know, I'll have people call me and be like, hey, can can you file this for me? How do AI write my patent application for me? I'm like, I'm not, I'm not. I'm sorry, I can't do that. Uh, and I wouldn't trust it either. But um, you know, there are people who are like, I'm gonna search and see if it's out there. So they put in their idea into AI. And I've always said, until a court tells me that's okay and not considered public disclosure, because I mean, you're literally giving your prompt, your description to the largest database out there, or at least one of them, right? How is that not public disclosure? Strange enough, just read a case out of it, I think it was out of New York federal court, and it had something

– When to file for a patent

Austin Bonderer 21:19

to do with attorney client privilege. Someone put these questions into AI or this information into AI. They somehow got a hold of it. They tried to claim it was attorney-client privilege. The court came out and said, if you look at the terms of service, they're allowed to keep your prompts, they're allowed to keep all the information that you put in there. Hence, that's a disclosure to a third party unrelated to the litigation, and therefore breaches attorney-client privilege. Now, that's not the same thing that we're talking about patents, but to me, public disclosure is public disclosure. So still, I think my idea is being reinforced. Do not put your idea into the AI prompts to see right.

Jaclyn Strominger 22:05

Because and and and this is actually a really big thing, listeners, because I I I want to bring this up because on the business side, and there's a little personal part of this with me. Um, if you're in business with somebody, right, and you have a separation, but you have you both of them putting all your stuff into AI, there's no more intellectual property. It's all it's if if if it it's all in there, like it's out there for anybody to see. It's in a database, correct?

Austin Bonderer 22:43

Well, I I don't, I mean, I don't know how I'm not an expert in AI. I just know they kind of own the information you put in, but I don't think that someone can literally be like, tell me what these people said, right? Right. I don't think it's that how that works. I could be wrong. I you know I I'm not a computer guy.

Jaclyn Strominger 23:04

Right, right. I think I have to do a couple of problems. So tell me, tell me, Chad and Claude, can you tell me what whatever? But I but I think but it I think it makes it more like null and void as you put it, you know, if you're sharing ideas and you're sharing information about your business, right, and you're putting it out there, right? And it's and it's not in a private behind the a firewall.

Austin Bonderer 23:32

Yes, I think I know what you're saying now. So that's the other thing about NDAs, they only protect confidential information. And if you put everything in AI, there's a good chance that it's not confidential anymore. So, therefore, all the NDAs that you signed with other parties are is now null and void. That's a court case. That is judges, that's going to go up to the federal circuit, possibly the Supreme Court. That's where, but I don't want to be the test case, and I don't want my clients to be on the wrong side of that. Now, it could be decided in the other way, like the Supreme Court may say this is so you know far removed from disclosure. Like you someone can't just come up and say who said this and what did they say, but it's now in in you know integrated

– Patent mistakes that cost entrepreneurs

Austin Bonderer 24:19

into you know a friend of mine likes to say the board, it's now part of the board and uh nerd reference. Sorry, right, but I get it.

Jaclyn Strominger 24:29

I'm I'm I'm nerd with you, so that I get it.

Austin Bonderer 24:33

Yeah, so it's in there, but I don't think it's easily accessible at this moment. So I don't know how that actually falls. I, you know, being an attorney, we're always like slip and falls, don't get hurt, you know, dangers everywhere, don't do it. So, I mean, but you know, you gotta move fast in business. There are risks that sometimes you have to take. If AI is getting you to the market fast, you know, I always say lawyers can lawyer lawyer you right out of business.

Jaclyn Strominger 25:01

Right. That is true. That is really true.

Austin Bonderer 25:04

We'll suck up all your budgets. Right. You will have the best company that has no money to sell anything, right?

Jaclyn Strominger 25:14

So so, you know, I I love the I, you know, I love the fact that what we're talking about is it's really about protecting our assets when it comes to the to, you know, some it, I mean it really brings to light to protect yourself from um you know harm in your business when you're getting out there. And with AI right now, you know, it's really it it changes how you actually do research on your product and your ideas. So in that sense, is it is it, and I'm just gonna say, let's say I take my idea, and instead of me obviously putting it into chat, I say, okay, Austin, here's my idea. You're the patent attorney. Can you do a better global search of my idea if there is something that's similar out there before I start going down the path of trying to create this? Because I want, I don't want to use AI because I'm now putting my idea out there. So do you do you, you as a patent attorney and other patent attorneys become this um the gateway to ideas so that you're uh get you know idea protection?

Austin Bonderer 26:33

Right. Yeah, so I don't actually know how that's all gonna hash out. So I don't know how good AI is at searching for products. You know, I just heard something crazy today about they found it, they developed an AI so advanced on developing software that they're afraid it can turn into like just hacking everything. Like it it found all the it found something as software that's been used for 30 years. No one's ever found these bugs. It found something could make it control the internet or something. I forgot what it was. So they're crazy how good these tools are. I just don't know how it works for searching. Um, what I would think is so we do it the old-fashioned way. We have to do it with non-disclosure agreements, we keep it private, we do all stuff. Now, once your product gets out there, there's no harm in throwing it into AI. So people who want to invalidate your patents may throw all this stuff in there and be like, search the entire world. Because our searches are done by humans, it's an art, not a science. You know, I used to be an examiner. The search I conducted on Wednesday and the references that I pull on Wednesday would probably not be the exact same if I did the search on Thursday, because you just you're focused on

– Trade secrets vs patents (Coca-Cola example)

Austin Bonderer 27:49

certain paradigms, certain days, you know, a little bit off here and there. You hope that the core is there, but you might have pulled a different one over here, a different reference over there on a different day. That's just the nature of human beings. AI, boom, it I don't know what's going to happen.

Jaclyn Strominger 28:06

Yeah. Right. So well, we're, you know, I have a friend of mine who developed a product and product, and she does have a patent on it. Um, it's actually quite cool. Um but you know, so when again, I guess I I guess I'll put it like this. It's like if if listeners want to have, you know, sort of that success with with their product, go make sure that you've explored the patent idea patent with a patent attorney before it goes out to everybody and their brother. You can still make money, you can, but as you said, have that year, but protect yourself.

Austin Bonderer 28:49

Yeah. So I always get the question when do I know I might have something that's patentable? And I'm like, generally, it's when you've solved a problem. Because if you've solved a problem, it might be a problem that everyone's had, you know. And so that's generally what inventions are, they're just solutions to problems that we've had or problems we didn't even know we had sometimes. And you know, that's you know, that's how it works. And um, so get a patent attorney. My suggestion is companies, you get on a really good relationship with a patent attorney, an IP attorney. I mean, but you should also have a good business attorney, right? Right. Um, your business insurance should have patent coverage in it, like patent infringement, in case someone sues you, case you have to sue someone, right? I don't think they have it offensively, but they definitely have it defensively. Um, so you should definitely, you know, those are the kind of things. Like I said, that's the stuff that I help businesses with sometimes, you know, after they develop their product and they're moving forward. Hey, can you help me with some of this business on the back end? Um, but if you have a good relationship with a patent attorney and they know what you're doing, and then I, you know, also with your trademarks, too. So you say you're developing products and you're moving into different areas, you need to protect those names. You know, I had a client that came in one time, and I was like, you guys should have gone because understand, trademarks are classes, so you can have acme oil company and acme uh fragrance company, right? That's not trademark infringement because they're in different classes, much you know, far apart. But you know, they came to me and I was helping them with them like you should have gone over here and they got usurped by someone else.

30:38

Right.

Austin Bonderer 30:39

Right. And just because you have a trademark in one class doesn't mean you have it in all classes, right? You need to act, but that should be part of the a search too, or you well, that the the the the reason that happened was because they were not close enough with their attorney for their attorney to foresee where they were going.

Jaclyn Strominger 30:57

Okay, got it. Well, that's actually a really cool thing. It goes to building it's it's you need to you it's not you're it's it's not like um patent attorney for hire, so to speak, in the sense of like just you know, you're not putting the coins, right? You know what I mean? Right? Like you really need to have that relationship so that they do know

– NDA myths and what most people get wrong

Jaclyn Strominger 31:19

what you're doing, just like your your your CPA, your um like your business attorney, like they all need to know what's going on in your business. I mean, I always like it like that's part of your, you know, if you if you had to make things efficient every year, get those people together in a room and say, okay, here's what we're doing in our business. You guys all need to make sure that we're all up and board, right? Like all on board.

Austin Bonderer 31:44

Right. Exactly. And you know, and it it depends on the attorneys you have. Someone will charge you for all that, some of them are just like, hey, I enjoy having the relationship. Because they, you know, that kind of stuff. So you should it's I I equate it to kind of like your doctor, you kind of gotta let your doctor know what's going on, right? They keep your business and healthy, you're all your attorneys do too, and your accountants, you know, right? I mean, what is that? That old saying, like, you know, my dad, you said three people, you need a good doctor, a good lawyer, and a good account, right? That's and that's what your business needs too.

Jaclyn Strominger 32:18

Right, right. That's true. And it's when I think about that right now, so many people don't have those. So if you don't have those listeners, get them. Get those all right. Um, so Austin, tell me, like, what is like what is your next big thing? Like, what are you really working on? Um, you know, and and what's you know, what keeps you going?

Austin Bonderer 32:38

Well, it keeps me going. I really enjoy what I do. I mean, like, I enjoy working with people. I, you know, it's when I have a client who truly has, I mean, I I I hate to say it, it, you know, I tell people when they first call, like independent inventors, you may want to take this money and invest it in the stock market. It's less speculative than you know, trying to develop a product. You know, patent is one thing, but it's a small step in actually developing a business based around an idea that you have. That's a lot of work. It costs a lot. It can, if it succeeds, it's gonna be great. If it doesn't, it's painful. But I have to tell you, when I'm with a client and it they got a red ball and it's just taking off and it's doing everything, that's that's why I got into this, is you know, to see that stuff. And it it really is great to see people making it work. And and I gotta tell you, like, I've seen great ideas, I've patented them for or helped them patent them. But as we all know, it's it's not the idea, it's the idea and the execution. And it's sometimes it's that hard part because there's a lot of question marks in there to get to profit. Like, how do I produce this? How much money am I gonna spend? What marketing do I do? And that's hard for one person to get all those right in order to make this thing happen.

Jaclyn Strominger 34:02

It is, it is, but you know, and and I guess that's also comes down to like having somebody, you know, in your back pocket like yourself, where they actually um have somebody sort of rooting for them and and who also has seen, you know, you've seen the good, the bad, and the ugly. So somebody's gonna come to you and they're gonna be like, okay, Austin, well, this is my my my what I want, a patent, whatever. You know, you being able to help not just advise, but say, okay, making sure that you have these other things in a row, ducks in a row.

Austin Bonderer 34:35

Yep. Exactly. I mean, and that's the thing. Like, I stay in my wheelhouse. Like, I'll have people come to me and be, hey, I have this idea for an invention. Do you think it's going to do well? And I'm like, I've worked too long because there have been times I'm like, this is going to kill the market. This is the greatest idea. This is the coolest thing since sliced bread goes nowhere. And then other times I'm like, are you sure you really want to spend all this money on this? Like, are you sure? And then sure enough, right as rain. You know, they had the conviction, they had they had everything, they made it work, and it was very successful. So when it comes to marketability, that's someone else's um that is not my will. Yeah, exactly. I is not in I, you know, I do the legal stuff. I you know, I can can I get you a patent?

– AI risks and intellectual property concerns

Austin Bonderer 35:19

Can I not get you a patent? Maybe I don't know, but yes, uh the marketability that's that's on that's on you.

Jaclyn Strominger 35:26

Uh well, I love it. Well, I could talk to you for hours about this because I think it's so fascinating. And I can't, I'm so curious as to like where AI is gonna take it because as we said, like there's there's so yeah, there's some areas obviously like putting it in, right? You know, right? Right, and that's gonna there's gonna be some changes down the road that I think pretty, you know, it's gonna be fascinating to see what happens.

Austin Bonderer 35:51

I had the coolest thing, and just one more thing, like about AI. And it I think I think we're okay, most of us, because we're at least the shepherds. We know what a patent attorney, what in in your business or whatever, like we know what it's supposed to be. The problem is the young kids coming up or the young's, they won't have the 20 years of experience to see that that AI did something wrong.

Jaclyn Strominger 36:19

Right, right.

Austin Bonderer 36:21

Yes, it will get to a point where no one knows if AI is right or wrong. Because I've spent 20 years writing patent applications, office actions, arguing this and that. I know the stuff. It can it can put out something that looks really, really good, but you know, I'm sure there are problems with it. And if the young people keep using that, they're they're not gonna have the experience to point out when it's wrong.

Jaclyn Strominger 36:50

Right. That's Sherry, right?

Austin Bonderer 36:53

Or the shepherds, yeah.

Jaclyn Strominger 36:54

I'm that makes me a little nervous about a lot of different things. So on that note, Austin, I you know, how can listeners get in touch with you, find more about what you are doing um in way of obviously patents and you know, and helping people? How can they connect?

Austin Bonderer 37:10

Well, it's probably easy to find me on the internet, Bonderer. It's I'm the only patent attorney in the United States with that last name. So you put in Bonderer and Patent, you will find me. Uh, you'll see my work, but my website should pop up and feel free to give me a call or an email.

Jaclyn Strominger 37:26

All right, well, that's great. Well, we will put your um your website link in the show notes um so that people can reach out to you. And listeners, please do me a favor, connect with Austin. This stuff is so important for your business. And I would hate for you to miss something so critical um in your business. So, you know, get Austin in your back pocket because you you may need um a patent attorney. So do me a favor, reach out and connect. And then please uh make sure to hit subscribe. And lastly, uh Unstoppable Success, we have a brand new community on the school platform. So please jump in. It's Unstoppable Success uh on school, and you can find us there. Please uh jump in and and join us. Uh it's going to be free for the first hundred people, and then we may have some other things on there, but we've got great courses that are going to be coming out, so you want to take part in that. And um, Austin, thank you for being a great guest. I really appreciate it.

Austin Bonderer 38:24

Well, thank you for having me.

Jaclyn Strominger 38:26

It's such a pleasure. And listeners, thank you for listening. I so appreciate each and every one of you. I am Jaclyn Strominger your host. Keep being unstoppable and leap to your greatest success.