– Meet Kathleen Tullie & Her Incredible Journey

Jaclyn Strominger 0:20

Hello, everybody, and welcome to another amazing episode of Unstoppable Success. This is a podcast where we hear from amazing leaders and influential professionals who are having unstoppable success. I'm your host, Jaclyn Strominger. And today I get to introduce you to somebody I truly love, Kathleen Tullie I'm gonna tell you a little bit about Kathleen. She was the head of social purpose at Reebok International from 2010 to March of 2022. She is the founder and executive director of Box Kids. But prior to joining the Reebok, prior to joining Reebok, Kathleen had founded the Box program. Originally it was known as Fit Kids. Now it's actually known as Active Kids, but we can we're gonna talk about that. But she spent an entire 18-year career in real estate finance before she started this an amazing program to help our kids get healthy. Lots to dive in on this, but she has truly had unstoppable success. So welcome, Kathleen. I'm so glad to glad to have you here.

Kathleen Tullie 1:27

Thank you, Jaclyn. I'm not sure I would say have unstoppable success, but we've had some success. So but thank you for giving me those kudos.

Jaclyn Strominger 1:37

Yeah, no, but but truly, so take everybody back a little bit because I know I know some of your history, but we want to let everybody know you were in corporate finance. So what made you go from the finance world to the active world? Other than the fact that I also know that you and I used to run together. So yeah.

Kathleen Tullie 1:56

That's nice to have you in the neighborhood for running. So my husband and I lived overseas in Japan and Scotland, and over there I was buying non-performing loans. And then when I moved back here, I was still working in the finance world, and I had a cancer diagnosis when my kids were really young. And so I decided to be a stay-at-home mom and be with my kids. Well, that lasted for about two weeks, and I came across the book Spark, written by Dr. John Rady, who's a professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School. And Dr. Rady speaks about the profound impact that exercise has on kids. That if you run around for 10 to 15 minutes, you do better in school, you're happier, you're healthier. And in his book, Spark, which I highly recommend anybody should read, he follows Naperville, Illinois, where they instituted zero-hour PE. So the principal and the PE teacher instituted a where every child works out for an hour before school and plays and runs. Within a year, Jaclyn, they were seeing a decrease in disciplinary issues, a decrease in nurse visits. Kids were doing better in academics. They actually

– The Cancer Diagnosis That Changed Everything

Kathleen Tullie 3:19

surpassed Singapore in math and science, which is unheard of for our US school system to surpass math and science. And so I thought, well, this is just like a no-brainer. Like kids were built to move, we were designed to move. Like, why aren't we letting? And this is actually before this is in, you know, pre this 2009, 2010, like where the phone addiction hadn't even come in yet. But even then we knew we had an obesity issue, we had a mental health issue, and screens were slowly starting to creep in. And so at that time, my kids were young. I had a pre-K and a first grader. And I went to my neighbors and to my the other moms in the school, and I said, you know, school doesn't start till 9 a.m. And I have all these kids on my front rock lawn playing, and then they get on a bus and sit for 40 minutes. Why don't the moms and dads who are stay-at-home moms and dads show up an hour before school and let other parents drop off their kids so they can go to work? And we start, you know, before school physical activity program. So I got some moms on board, and uh Jaclyn, I'm pretty sure you were probably one of the first volunteers as well. And so we went to the principal. The principal, Bev McCloskey, did not like the idea at first. So we went to the superintendent who we knew was a triathlete, and he said, I love the idea. I brought him the book. I highly recommend if you're trying to sell somebody an idea, show them the success in a book. So we went back and talked to Mrs. McCloskey and she said, Okay, do it, fine. And we sent out a note to all the parents saying if you drop your kids off an hour before school, evidence shows they'll be happier and healthier. And so we had 82 kids sign up in that first week. And I mean, it was free, it was free babysitting. So we were literally just showing up with hula hoops, whistles, balls, dogs, and playing kickball games and tag games and relay races. And parents and teachers started to say, geez, my kids are sleeping better at school. I mean, sleeping better at night. The kids are more focused in school. And so what I call word of mom started to spread, and other communities reached out to me for a copy of our curriculum. And so we at that moment, we kind of had our aha moment, like, well, maybe we should, you know, design a nonprofit, apply for a nonprofit, create a curriculum. At the time, most of us were all, most of the moms involved were all into either CrossFit or some other gym in the local area. So we worked with the experts in the area and we put together a functional fitness curriculum. And then I about a year later, I went to Rebok and I begged, borrowed, and pleaded for a 10-minute meeting with the CEO. And so we went in there on a Friday night and and he said, I'll give you 10 minutes. And we were there for two and a half hours with the CEO, Uli Becker, and the chief marketing officer Matt O'Toole. They say, you know, we actually love what you did. You've created something that the sporting goods industry has failed at. The sporting goods industry has created a culture of spectators, and we need to reverse that and create a culture of participants. And there's no better way than to start with youth and moms. So why

– Building a Movement That Reached Thousands of Kids

Kathleen Tullie 6:49

don't you come in-house and we'll build this program in the Boston area? So after a few months, we decided to go in-house. And the idea, Jaclyn, was to build the program just in the Boston area, and it quickly grew into an international program. Canada gave us a $5 million. The Canadian Government of Canada and the CFL gave us a $5 million grant over five years to get into 400 schools. We got into 4,000 schools. In Massachusetts, I want to say we were probably in 30% of the schools. In Boston, we were at one point we were in all of their elementary schools. In Natick, we were in all of the elementary schools with wait lists at some of them. And it it morphed into an interesting model where the suburban model or more middle income to upper income was run by parent volunteers. The low-income areas, you could not find those parent volunteers. So we were providing stipends of about $5,000 per school to pay for two trainers. And sometimes it was the PE teacher or the school nurse, but those teachers would run the program two to three mornings a week before, during, or after school. And so we we were really lucky. We had these big training events at Reebok, and we had parents coming from all over the New England area to do a training. We wanted to make sure the barriers were not big, that anybody, it was just basically giving adults the confidence to put some music on and let kids run and play and find their inner, find the kid, have the kids find their inner athlete. Like kids learn their habits by age eight. And if they're not excited about movement and feeling confident, they're not gonna love them, they're not gonna go on to be future sports people. And not that everybody has to be a sports person, but everybody should feel confident in their body and strong.

Jaclyn Strominger 8:52

And so important. I mean, and I know you were talking about kids, but I but I mean, I feel like I've I mean, this has just been my MO forever, which has always been get up in the morning and work out, partly because it gets your brain going. And I can always tell you like it's a huge difference. And we have a mutual friend, my friend Mariana Cogan, who I absolutely love. And she used to say to me, You're insane because you told me you didn't get that much sleep and you're still working out. I'm like, Yeah, because it's gonna help me power through my day.

Kathleen Tullie 9:27

Oh, yeah. I mean, my mood is totally different on the days that I do run versus the days that I don't. I mean, and that's Dr. Rady talks about that in his, you know, the the endorphins, your neuropinephrine, serotonin, dopamine. I mean, it immediately starts to activate the minute you start moving. And it doesn't have to be intense or something you don't like. It could be climbing a tree or you know, playing hopscotch, like it's just that's what our bodies were designed to do. So the other thing that Uli Becker and Matt O'Toole were really interested in was you know, we knew the evidence was there, but they thought we needed to prove it. So we hired Mass General Hospital, Harvard, Dalhousie, University of Canada, Wayne Westcott, America Council on Exercise, so many different groups who did long-term studies on the efficacy and the impact of the program. So they looked at the impact that these kids had, you know, and it proved that kids did better in school, they dropped their BMIs, they had less discipline issues. So mental health, like they were more able to focus. I loved Dr. Georgia Hall out of Wellesley College, who was with National Institute of Out of School time. She was one of our first studies, and you might remember this study where we put accelerometers on all the kids at Memorial. And she was like, she thought one of the best results out of that was proving that kids could figure out how to self-regulate better. Oh, okay. And who in this day and age, like kids need that so much. So it's been it, it was great. And and then Sun Life sponsored us in Indonesia, and the United Sports Foundation in Japan sponsored us after Fukushima happened. And so it really grew. You know, unfortunately, COVID hit, and I think not only myself, but other nonprofits like Playworks, Girls on the Run, we all took kind of a hit. And then, as you know, the biggest hit I took was that Rebok was sold by Adidas to Authentic Brands Group. And with that went my budget, a team of 24, and my license that I had signed over to Reebok. So Authentic Brands Group, about a year after the sale in 2023, they said, you know, we're gonna give you back the license, but you have to change the name from box to active kids with a very small amount of funding. So I continue the program. I'm very passionate

– Why Schools Need More Movement, Not Less

Kathleen Tullie 12:19

about it. It's so simple. Like kids just need to move. And I am psyched that this administration is focusing on physical activity and that yesterday they announced from the White House that they are bringing back the presidential youth fitness test. I think a lot of people will appreciate that we do need some accountability. I know some people are worried that, you know, it might be too strict or too too competitive, but I think that, you know, that's depending on the design and how it's designed and how it's delivered. But Jaclyn, we have to do something. Like PE teachers are at the bottom of the totem pole. They deserve to be at the top. They're taking care of the health and wellness of our kids. And if kids aren't healthy, they can't thrive and learn. So we need to put PE teachers on the pedestal. We need to bring back the resources. And you know that most budgets, school budgets have zero dollars for PE. It's horrible. Maybe, I mean, I shouldn't say zero, but you know, not anything worth it.

unknown 13:32

Yeah.

Kathleen Tullie 13:32

You know, and it's so interesting.

Jaclyn Strominger 13:35

You know, and I keep thinking about this. It's like I remember, you know, when when we were in elementary school and in middle school, we still had recess.

Kathleen Tullie 13:45

Yeah.

Jaclyn Strominger 13:46

Right. And then somewhere they reduced that. And and then in some middle schools, it even went away. And then, you know, I mean, high school, that's a little different because of all the additional sport programs that they have, but not everybody is in a sport. And we had high school athletics. I remember, I mean, you know, we still had high school PE. Yeah. And it's gone.

Kathleen Tullie 14:19

Yeah, it is. I mean, and now they take away recess for punishment, which is the worst policy ever because those kids who are getting in trouble, what they really need to do is go hang on a monkey bar and run around the playground. Right. There's nothing wrong with them except for that they have a lot of energy and they're, you know, being put in front of computers. And I mean, the the statistics show, and even our next door neighbors, I have a a 12-year-old, you know, who lives next to me, and she says she a lot of the times in school has headaches because she's just staring at a screen all day. Like how natural is that? Oh, it's horrible.

Jaclyn Strominger 14:58

So I'm, you know, there's something that I'm kind of you know, I'm curious about too. And you probably have seen this, but we've lost certain things in our in the playground. So swings, things that spin. There, there's things that have just gone, like jungle, like the monkey bars. It's they're all needed.

Kathleen Tullie 15:23

They are needed. Well, I think it goes with, I don't know if you've read Jonathan Hadd's book. He's written two, which are fantastic. One is called The Coddling of the American Mind, I think that's what it's called. And the other is The Anxious Generation. But in the coddling of the American Mind, he said, you know, we've made we've we've made life too too safe for these kids. We don't allow them to go out and play, and we've taken off anything dangerous out in the playground. And and so we've created kids who are really nervous that they can't go out and find these confidence and they can't build the motor skills or the muscles that they were to do. And in the in the anxious generation, he draws the parallel to screens and the rise in depression and suicide and anxiety, and there's a direct correlation.

Jaclyn Strominger 16:16

Yeah, I just remember hearing like when swings are going away, that I was surprised because I remember reading that that back and forth motion is something that we needed for brain development. Oh, interesting. I don't know, but I I don't remember if I read that or whatnot, but it was like, but like, and that there was something about that brain development that like we need those things for brain development, like so our brains can function better. I always wondering, are we gonna get to a point where balance is off more?

Kathleen Tullie 16:50

Like it's I would think so, just from staring at our phones and our screens, right? Like we no longer, you know, and I know I mean Mitch could talk about this, like there has to be, you know, something going on with the brain development with the fact that we're not experiencing the presence, we're just constantly in front of the phone. Right.

Jaclyn Strominger 17:16

Yeah, and then there's a there's a whole thing with your neck. I mean, there's so many

– Reebok, COVID & Rebuilding After Setbacks

Jaclyn Strominger 17:19

different things, but all right, I could talk about this part for uh, but I have a quick I have a question that I want to ask you about your your trajectory because it is not easy to have the for lack of better word, the rug taken out from underneath you, you know. So when when you know rebock gets sold, it you know, so how how did you handle that transition? Because, you know, I mean, obviously outside looking in, it was like smooth as silk, but I'm sure it wasn't. And I think this is something that our our listeners, you know, transition and changes happens and happen in business. And I thought you, I personally think that you did it beautifully.

Kathleen Tullie 18:02

Well, thank you, Jaclyn. Isn't that the the misleading conception of social media? Yeah, no, and yeah, and to to add fuel to the fire, like my daughter had a ski accident at the time, my mom died of a stroke, like COVID hit. I was I you know, I I think it took it, I think it really affected me. It's been humbling. I still ride an emotional roller coaster every day where I'm like I want to fight the battle and I want to make sure that you know kids, all kids, especially those with you know, lack of access and needs, have the opportunity to play and move. And so, which reminds me, I want to tell you something a little boy told me once, which has always stuck with me, and I know that drives me to do what I do, but it hasn't, it has not been easy, it's been very humbling, and I question myself all the time. Like, why? I mean, yes, I just spent two days at the Aspen Institute Project Play Conference in Boston, and you know, I have approached all of these businesses, whether it's Dix or Adidas or New Balance or John Hancock, like I'm like, okay, here I have a plug-and-play model. Take it, it's yours. You don't have to use my name, you don't have to use that you can change the name, but I've created something that grew as a sustainable, scalable, evidence-based program. And so I haven't had any traction. So it's funny because I feel like I have failed, and maybe that's why because I want to I feel like I failed I failed kids and I failed a lot of my employees that I didn't find a solution for us when we built something I believe was so good. And so I, you know, it it's interesting that you think, and maybe that's the problem with social media because it makes it look that way, but I know when I keep going until I feel like we have had success.

Jaclyn Strominger 20:23

So, you know, I would say that's the that's the entrepreneur roller coaster, right? You know, you you know, you have, you know, the I would say even though you know, maybe it's it has it was sold and the employees didn't have a place to go, you've done something that has made an impact. And so, you know, it's and and so you impacted, you know, during those, you know, whether it was between 2010 and 2022, the impact that you had on, you know, how many kids, how many places, right? So that's huge success. So then you have a small shrink, it's like it, you know, it's it's like you know you, you know, you realize something, but then you're but you're still going and you're still creating an impact. Just the impact's different.

Kathleen Tullie 21:23

It is a different. And the thing that's frustrating to me um is that I've heard, I mean, gosh, if I mean, I can send you all these videos of the testimonials, you know, like, but I think to myself, okay, if it was that good and I had so many parents, why is it still not going as strong? Why can't I find somebody to back it? Why aren't more parents doing it right now? Like, so clearly I'm doing something wrong and not getting the message out or inspiring parents to bring this to their school because all it takes, as you know, I mean, you volunteered, and it was it's fun, it was really fun to volunteer. Like all it takes is two or three parents at a school to say, I want to do this before or after school, and you're doing it for the community, but but it hasn't grown that way. I had more parents involved pre COVID, and I I don't think it's me alone. I mean, I Know, you know, speaking with the folks yesterday at Aspen Institute Project Play, like I think a lot of nonprofits, whether it's Playwords or Girls on the Run, they all feel that way right now. Like there's lack of parent engagement, there's lack of funders. We're getting hit by both sides.

Jaclyn Strominger 22:35

Yeah. I would actually challenge you on that. I think actually that, you know, to we flip the switch and we think that we're that you're doing something that is truly successful. I think the one of the bigger issues, and I think this is the part where, you know, it's a choice, right? It's what's the easiest road, right? And even though it's easy for what you're doing, think about food, right? I mean, God, you know, you have a choice. You could you could go to McDonald's or make something at home, right? Like, like, you know, like it's a it's a choice, like how easy is it, you know, to sometimes doing the right thing for their health. When it comes to health, I think we're backwards.

Kathleen Tullie 23:23

I do too. And why are parents like what so in Natick, think about it, Jaclyn? In Natick, we had parent volunteers in all the schools. I mean, we had over we had it five days a week at Memorial. We had well over a hundred kids. Now they can't even find paid trainers sometimes. Like, and why is that? Like, if you knew, if you knew you would give a pill, uh child a pill and they'd be happier, healthier, they'd do better on tests.

Jaclyn Strominger 23:52

Why are you not because it's not a pill? I think I think that we have I personally think that we have with advertising, sorry for all those people that are on GLP1s, you know, I think they can do great, but we we need to educate people that it's that we need to work, we need to work for results. And and and even though all the results show how well it does, it's still people being active. So if it's if if it's easier for me to skip my kid a pill, I don't know, and it's education, right? Education, you know, I think it's also how we've been, we've we grew up moving, we see that, and then we're shocked about the next multiple generations not moving, yeah. And the impact, you know, but I this is where I would say keep going, keep moving, because no part intended there, but because it's it it is something that I think that you know will get to be that change again and have that that same volume of people. I think it comes to hitting the right, hitting those, hitting, hitting the market, right? Where and you know, maybe hopefully with this new with the administration, I think also comes like top down. What happened during when when the administration took all that stuff away, you know, again, where happens, you know, what's the top doing, right? We all know about the CEO, right? The CEO is the one that can help dictate this stuff. So if if we can get more people at the top thinking about it, maybe maybe we're gonna get greater movement.

Kathleen Tullie 25:57

Yeah. Yeah, I hope so. So that's my hope. I mean, we have so many things going on right now. And I, you know, my hope is that we get some momentum with this administration and you know, the new call to the presidential youth fitness test

– How Parents Can Help Kids Thrive Today

Kathleen Tullie 26:19

because the science is there. Right.

Jaclyn Strominger 26:23

So, so what do you think you need to move it over the edge? But let's say, let's say we could, let's say, you know, people are listening and they're like, I love this idea, kids are moving, scores are going up, I want to be involved. How can people move right now to either a get involved? Is it is it you know, getting involved, is it donations? Like, what's what would be the biggest driver, you know, like top three things?

Kathleen Tullie 26:54

Top three things. Number one, parents bring the program to your school. Start with the functional fitness, show up, be part of the school day with your kids, whether it's before, during, or after. Like, show up. You don't have to be a sports trainer, like just do it. And it's so rewarding and document the the fun and the improvement. So, and and share your stories, share them with us, you know, educate yourself. And yes, funding. I mean, we have no funders, so we're working on some, hopefully, but you know, funding to help with curriculum design and providing stipend to low-income schools to run the program, you know, and and make it your take on your responsibility to help your child. Like, this is one of the best gifts you can give is the gift of movement. Yeah. And like even little, go out. I mean, if it's not my program, like go out after dinner, go for a walk around the block with your kids. Like just move.

Jaclyn Strominger 28:05

Yeah, just move.

Kathleen Tullie 28:07

And can I say one other thing, Jaclyn? The other thing that drives me nuts, like at this conference, it was all about sports and the whole culture of club sports, and you know, the and and that's the pro this is the whole problem with the sports sector. This is what Matt O'Toole and Uli Becker said early on is that the sporting sector has created a culture of spectators, and they need to create a culture of participants in the US. Our youth sport is insane. Like yesterday they did a quote, which I thought was a little exaggerated, but they said that travel baseball can get up to $30,000 per year for a family, and like stop having to do the elite sports, just let kids be kids and play and find their inner athlete and do you know, they don't have to specialize at age eight and go do something, just let them be an athlete, let them go do a 5k and like have fun.

Jaclyn Strominger 29:12

Well, you know, but that's an interesting thing. How many times, how many 5k races have you seen go by the wayside or even bike, you know, fundraising rides, right?

Kathleen Tullie 29:28

I mean, yeah, although I do have I have to say, running has totally taken off. Did you know the London Marathon just had over 1.5 million people apply for it through their lottery? Yeah, I did not know that. Yeah. So sorry, I'm pouring my water. Yeah.

Jaclyn Strominger 29:45

Wow, that's fantastic. Yeah, that's that's really fantastic. I know that we have there's a race, there's a race that's coming here that we that we had not I had not seen, but you know, I just I guess I I used to go online and I would see tons and tons of races. And I don't see it as much here. Maybe it's just because I'm out in Nevada and we don't have it as much.

Kathleen Tullie 30:09

I think it's your rhythm.

Jaclyn Strominger 30:11

Yeah.

Kathleen Tullie 30:15

Yeah. No, there are racing, racing has definitely increased.

Jaclyn Strominger 30:20

Which is actually, which is great. But but who's racing then? What's the age groups?

Kathleen Tullie 30:27

I don't know. That's a good question. Yeah.

Jaclyn Strominger 30:30

Right? Because, you know, the I mean, youth sports is insane, right? As you were saying, like $30,000 for travel baseball. I actually wouldn't doubt it. I mean, I think about what, you know, the even just the cost for you know travel basketball from what you know, what we did. It's you know, it's and getting kids, you know, starting them, you know, at focusing, you know, oh my god, my kids got to just be focused on one sport.

Kathleen Tullie 31:03

Yeah. Well, it's interesting too. One of the PE teachers just said to me that this generation of parents right now are so focused on being their the best friends with their kids and making sure that they are an Olympic athlete and like that their kids love them instead of actually like making sure they're well-rounded and that they're the guardian or the parent. They're not the yeah, you have to you know, Jackie goes with the pro the I think that's a an a side effect of our symptom of our technology. Everything's so and now even with AI, everything's so fast. The parents just wanna, you know what? It's okay. I'm gonna make his lunch, I'm gonna pack the car, I'm gonna, I'm gonna pick out his clothes, I'm gonna, you know, so it's it's like a weird, it's just yeah, yeah.

Jaclyn Strominger 32:00

That's it's kind of interesting because I'm you know, and it's it's interesting, and I always feel like to say to parents, and that's not that I mean to can you know compare my children to an animal, but I am going to that if you're going to be a parent, get a dog. Because what does a dog need? A dog needs walk, needs to be walked. If it doesn't, it gets in trouble, right? The dog needs to be walked, you need to take care of it, and you need to be alpha. You need to love it, but you also need to reprimand it. And you have to do the same thing with your children. I hate to say it, but yes, you're your there's a point in time that where you can be your child's best friend, but that's after, like to me, yeah, it moved out of the house. You can be their best friend, but you need to actually be the parent first. Yeah. But but that's why I love what you're doing, because you're bringing, you know, you're helping parents show their kids that how important movement is. And you're helping change, you're helping kids be better. Yeah. You know, even if it's you know, it's like the Star Thread, if you can do it for one person, you've made a difference.

Kathleen Tullie 33:13

Yeah. Well, I don't feel that way yet, but maybe it's no point.

Jaclyn Strominger 33:21

You're you are making a difference. So, Kathleen, tell everybody where they can connect with you, how they can go and learn more about active kids and get their kids, get their schools signed up.

Kathleen Tullie 33:36

You can learn more at ww.activkids.org. You can follow us on Instagram at active kids, on LinkedIn, on Facebook. We are, you will find a lot of our material is still box branded because I'm a one-man show with a few consultants. So, but yeah, we're still moving along here. So that's awesome.

Jaclyn Strominger 34:01

All right, listeners, you got to do me a favor. You have to reach out and connect with Kathleen. Activekids.org, it is actually one of the best programs that you can get your kids into. Trust me when I tell you this. Your kids will change, your life will change, your kids are gonna they'll be thriving even more. So if you want your kids to thrive, get them involved. And then find out how you can get involved as a parent because it is actually really fun to do things with your kids. That's part of memory making, and that's what we need to be doing. We need to be making memories with our kids, and you're getting them off-screen. You get to move too. So connect with Kathleen and then do me the other favor and making sure that you are subscribing to the podcast. And lastly, we have a brand new school community that's on the platform School S K-O-O-L. Please go over there to Unstoppable Success. Join our community. It is free right now for the last few days or few weeks. But jump on there because we have great insights. We help you have unstoppable success, and we've got a lot of people in there that are wanting to help you be successful. Kathleen, I could talk to you for hours about this. So thank you for being on the podcast and listeners. Thank you for listening. I appreciate it. Thank you. Oh, my pleasure.